Most complex verbs form?

March 9th, 2010 | Posted by jack under enart.qthx.com with
  • Following the discussion on sareru and saseru on another thread, I was thinking what is the most complex verb forms that you have seen, overheard or just overread on news paper or tv subtitles. Learning the most complex can help uss tackle all the other easy forms, I think. What I mean by complex verb is like compound verbs with difficult conjugatation. I have not known much verbs in Japanese albeit complex one. If I would try to give example, perhaps:

    取り出させてください　「toridasasete kudasai」　to be made taking something out by someone? err...

    ax


  • I'd say the させられる takes the cake, although when talking to old people, or bank tellers and they throw that keigo out at you, it can be as equally confusing if you're not ready for it.

    EDIT:
    Although passive tense is pretty easy in terms of saying, knowing when to use them is a different story. Used more in Japanese I'd say.


  • Well, I'd say that if such sentence exists naturally in English, surely Japanese equivalent will exist too.

    I think "exists naturally" is the key phrase here. There are weird constructions in English too, but they're uncommon.


  • causative passive potential (negative past)? hehe this is fun. and likely completely off-base...

    食べさせられられなかった。


  • Well, I'd say that if such sentence exists naturally in English, surely Japanese equivalent will exist too.
    Not necessarily. There is most likely /a/ Japanese sentence but it isn't necessarily /equivalent/.

    When translating you often have to make the choice between a sentence that doesn't really mean quite the same thing and one that sounds unnatural.


  • I dont know if it's really all that tricky but, 休ませて頂きます　has to be my favourite "difficult" verb formation.

    BTW Hi everyone Im new here. (Stefan from New Zealand


  • Well, I'm late to the party, but check this one (http://www.sf.airnet.ne.jp/~ts/japanese/message/jpnEvYvBhH7EvOV25cD.html) out.


  • I haven't heard of anything such as "causative passive potential" such as "食べさせられられなかった。" but what do I know...? Are you sure that such form exists in modern Japanese?

    I think the verbs with "naru" could be quite confusing.
    Consider such things as (please correct me if you think I am wrong):
    Taberarenakunaru (become inedible)
    Tabetakunaru (become wanting to eat)
    Tabetakunakunaru (become not wanting to eat)
    Tabetakunaritakatta (wanted to become wanting to eat)
    Tabetakunakunaritakatta (wanted to become not wanting to eat)
    Tabetakunakunaritakunakatta (not wanted to become not wanting to eat)
    ”食べたくなくなりたくなかった”

    One more:
    褒められたくなくなりたくございませんでした


  • I'd say, it will be the past negative form of causative passive form...

    -させられませんでした

    :blush:


  • "Could not be made to eat" in one word, pretty useful :cool:


  • :? I don't know what's going on here...:?

    Anway, all of the conjugations that nhk9 posted are correct, I think.

    食べさせられられなかった。 This one's wrong.

    My personal opinion: All of these conjugations exist, but they are rarely used in daily usage. Simplicity for clarity is the rule in modern Japanese, as well it is in English. Some people do it just for fun, though.

    This doesn't mean keigo is not important. It is now a sign of education among Japanese (because a lot of young people aren't able to use it properly). :p


  • Well, I'd say that if such sentence exists naturally in English, surely Japanese equivalent will exist too.







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